supervisors. that is why i do think endorsements are important. that is why i'm proud to have the endorsement of supervisor avalos, who is in attendance tonight. i will leave his support to make sure we get things like local hiring initiatives. i will need the help of assembly member amiano to make sure we get state funding for state programs -- school programs. i will need help from senator magee in order to make sure we get help from the state to make sure our housing projects are built properly. i have the ability to create the consensus. i have proven that not only through this campaign, but through my tenure in district 10. i want to do it as a supervisor, not on a micro level, but on a macro level for all of us, and i have the proven track record in order to do that. >> my home phone number is 341- 8040.

the reason i say this is i think a lot of people in this room already have it, and it means that for the last decade or more, i have been answering that call to leave the neighborhood and the district. we need a supervisor who has the experience and skill set to make change happen and the commitment and value to do the right thing every time for the next four to eight years. it is wanting to talk about the budget and another to ask what you will do on that in july at 1:00 in the morning when the mayor says we're going to cut the budget for health and human services, and that is how we are going to get the budget, or else we're not going home. who is going to stand up for that? let's say at 3:00 on friday morning at 3 -- there is a mental health expert at a shooting scene to make sure there is hope for the families? i will be there. ask yourself who will be there and who will not. it is about time we raise expectations from what we expect from government. love and fairness, courage and compassion, better ideas, and

hard work. thanks. >> i want to first thank you guys for being here. in these tough economic times, you really want someone -- i mean, we have a lot of broken promises, and as a member of the community college board, i talked about bringing city college closer to the community, and that is why we are expanding our city service program, by adding 200 glasses so folks can have access to of the -- to affordable, high-quality education. district 10 is at a crossroads. do we continue to be a place for working-class people in san francisco, where do we come a bedroom community, do we sought to attack our 40% unemployment rate? that is bangladesh style unemployment. do we start to attack back in a real way to create real jobs? do we even asked the question what type of jobs and what type of housing will we have in our district? those are the questions i will

be asking. those are the questions i have asked. that is the kind of approach to government that i will take, that i have taken. please put your trust and faith in me. thank you. >> vote for me, and if you do not have to wait until november 2 because of early voting starts in less than two weeks. i want to thank everybody for hosting the form, especially our time keepers. it has been like synchronized swimming. speaking directly to you is one of the best parts of this campaign to me, so thank you for being here. i believe on your choice for supervisors because i'm informed. i started learning about the issues here -- the challenging issues well before it was time to run for the campaign. i was talking to people on leland, san bruno, third street, well before it was time to collect signatures. i've invested in his community. i have a 30-year mortgage on my home, right at the crossroads of every change coming out of my issues are ever was issues, and i am independent. i have not mentioned my personal

background. i am a business lawyer. i have started three businesses. i drove myself to panama and back. s risks ad do the right thing, even if it is an unpopular decision. we need that kind of informed, independent leader. please vote for me as soon as possible. >> thank you. this is the last each year after year for tonight, and i want to thank you for sticking it out with us. thank you to the community we live in that we call home, the community i have been working in for all of my life. i was born and reared here in san francisco, and i have a background in public policy. i have been working both in washington, d.c., as well as in san francisco, and their three things need to think about me -- that is commitment to keeping district 10 residents healthy, keeping them working, and keeping them safe. those are my #13 priorities, and i would love to have your support. -- those are my number one three

priorities. we need to have a consensus builder because issues come and go, but a person's values -- are they trustworthy, can you believe them, will they be there when you pick up the phone? that is what counts. land use and development is very important. yes, it is critical, but will they be there for you when your back is against the wall? will they listen? will there be transparency? will there be open and honest dialogue even when you do not see eye to eye? i would love to serve you. >> thank you all very much, candidates. i think we all agreed this is a pretty impressive panel of candidates. [applause] district 10 will be in good hands. the president of the league of women voters san francisco. >> i just wanted to say thank you very much to all the candidates and to echo banking

-- thanking all of our volunteers from the league of women voters, especially our timekeepers. [applause] and encourage all of you to join the league of women voters of san francisco. go to our website, www.sfvotes.org. i would also like to thank our hosts here tonight at ucsf and introduce paul takayama. [applause] >> i would like to thank all the candidates for a very interesting evening tonight, and i hope a lot of yot invaluable information. this is a really great event. i would like to thank tom for running a very tight ship and getting us out of your on-time -- out of here on time. i appreciate the lead for a really great organization. for those of you interested in

district 6, we are having a debate here on october 7, 6:00 here. thank you very much. [applause] >> we are just going to say good night here. one more paragraph. on behalf of the league of women voters and our partner organizations, the potrero hill organization of businesses, the dog patch organization, the university of california san francisco, media sponsors nbc bay area -- we are proud to be here -- san francisco government television and educational access tv, and certainly, our thanks to the candidates for participating and thanks to you for being here tonight, informing yourself, being good citizens of san francisco. good night, everyone. [applause]

>> welcome to the department of building inspection brown bag lunch. this is a series we run on the -- every month.

we talk about topics of general interest. we are going to talk about the subject that comes up when people get permits. and my going to be able to recoup the value of the work to do when a property? how does my improvement or repair affect my property about you? we have guests today. jonathan, thanks for coming. james, and alice. alice is a neighbor. thanks for coming. i have a big hand out of stuff about what other people think values might be when you do work on your home. san francisco is a different world, isn't it? >> we have so many micro districts and pockets of different the used within two or three blocks. answering the question for one

house may not always be the same as answering that question for different house. >> give us an idea. if you get a view, it will be different -- >> shore. the value of a simple remodel verses a very fancy kitchen remodel in a house that might be worth more than a condominium. those things can matter. it can make a difference. >> we have a request from one of our viewers to make sure we talk about -- home-improvement results and building taxes. >> accessible. >> the other thing that might be brought out his people over- improved. there is a fine line. i recommend that my client or anyone talk to realtors before they start. it is a good idea to get an idea

of that neighborhood, that house, and how it can be done. >> page 22 of the handout, spend an hour with the pro. talk about what the value means and how it will add value to your home, or if it will be over spending on something that maybe you can do without. >> exactly. >> it is very important to know why you are doing it. are you doing it to add value? will you live there for 20 years and you want a nicer kitchen? it cost $20,000, but only as $15,000 in value. it is different than if you want to sell it in three or four years. >> i had a lady who bought a couple of units and wanted my opinion years ago. she had an old victorian with an old brick foundation. she was absolutely convinced that the foundation had to be

concrete and had to be concrete tomorrow. it was the first thing she did. she had different people, and look at the way she could do it. someone convinced her she should really be fit up and do it to the degree that she could add another unit or another living space down the line it see -- if she so chose. against my advice, she probably spent over $100,000 on pouring concrete down there. it sits there as an empty shell of a basement, which is sort of useless, really. i think you can get expert opinions from many different people, and the value question is a different question than an expert opinion on a particular subject. the value question is a question of the value of the property. is it over-improving? sometimes the contractor will tell you otherwise. the value is probably for a salesperson. >> that is something john wrote

out. what value? value to you? value to the appraiser who comes in in one month? value is certainly individual. we do see houses, unfortunately, as james as saying, that may be beef up the foundation, but there are so many that just do -- that don't do anything behind the walls, which is an issue for us, that when we go when their -- people buy it, but we have to really make sure the homeowner is aware of both. >> something else that is a typical misnomer, i think, remodeling my house, doing a quick renovations before i sell it or try to market it might increase its value. not necessarily always, and not necessarily in all instances. one thing that -- you know,

there are different levels of that. it is so important to get professional opinions about your true goals to see if your goals for doing a major improvement for a minor improvement on your property, if those goals line up with the market situation, and how best to reach those goals. maybe there are ways to reach those goals for you, in a personal way that may not involve the heavier remodel. >> let me mention a couple of things. people are coming in to replace a profound asians and to other work that they believe is necessary -- profound foundations and do other work that they believe is necessary. they do things they think should be done that are actually -- where the money could be better spent if their goal is to improve the structural quality of their house. they would have a better improvement curve if they put it in the ground floor or roger

area. -- or garage area. >> i see people who have undertaken various remodels without benefit of proper permiting. one of the key questions that is always asked, i would like to have your opinions about, which is, what is the relative benefit to doing work to 1's home prior to sale, with kermit, verses without a permit? is it a good step to take to seek to legalize things that were done in the past that might of been done without a permit? essentially, what percentage of the value added do you get from your kitchen remodel it you haven't got a permit for? >> are you saying this is already built? they want to know whether they should do the permit or not? >> most often, i find it to be the former. the latter does come up. people do considerate. usually, it is whether you will

go back and permit something that was done illegally. >> that is really tricky. it has a lot to do with the expectation of the amount of money they will get for the property. you have to disclose, disclose, disclose in that case. it has happened to me before. it is mainly because you cannot see what is behind the walls. you can tell that to buyers and sellers. buyers should be concerned about what the electrical looks like, where the plumbing is, what is happening to something that has not been permitted. it could be just fine. owners will tell you that i had my uncle joe do with and he is a plumber and electrician, but we did not want to spend the time and money to do the permit process. that is fine, but it is hard to convince a buyer. it will have an affect on the value, no question. if they want to go to the

process, great. i have had sellers require them to go through for a second bath for something that was not permit it. everything was done properly. a contractor owned the house and got it permitted. it was not a big deal. everything was done properly. he could do it. they should find out what the process will take. it they are doing new work, definitely. people are looking at everything. they scrutinized things. if that completion is not on their, their concern. >> report of residential record, it's basically summarizes what is in the building department records about work that has been done, and required documents that are disclosed from a seller to a buyer. james? >> it is a big topic because everyone knows that -- we used

to say 60,000 illegal or unauthorized units in thant of those that exist. people live in them. what does that mean? probably, they were built without a permit, or the use of them is a not-permitted use. it does not necessarily mean that work done to add a room down in a basement behind de garage was done without a permit, but the actual use of the finished space might be a non-authorized users, non- permitted use. >> you might have -- >> you could have a room downstairs. you could have a sink in the room as a family room with a wet bar, maybe. the city starts getting funny about that kind of thing. it sounds like an illegal unit

already. it is not always a bad thing. i would not say that in many instances, legalizing -- "legal" is a strong term. in our business and sales business, we try to avoid that term. it has many implications. to say something illegal is -- to say something is legal or illegal has a lot of implications. we cannot really say. we can say it does permit it or not permit it. what is or is not authorized is a different statement. we have to be mindful. one thing i wanted to say about jeremy pose a question was, there are quite a few very good people in san francisco to go to if you want to legalize something that had been done without a permit in the past, or you want to get a permit for every model that was done or a bathroom that was added downstairs without a permit, and you feel like your uncle maybe was -- may have done it

properly. oftentimes, it is no big deal. it is a good thing to do. there are many companies that specialize in doing just that. you can do that. it depends on your goal. if your goal is to sell the property or to avoid neighbor complete -- there could be two different goals with two different results, choices about how you go about taking care of the bathroom that you built in the basement without a permit, or you might do nothing. that may be ok, too. >> the question was focused related to value. >> ok. the hypothetical of a kitchen remodel, high-end to remodel that was done without the benefit of permit. what percentage of value are they leaving on the table by selling that without benefit of a permit? >> i think in my experience,

which is less than alice in chains, eight times out of 10, in a residential -- which is less than alice and james, eight times out of 10 coming in residential unit, you can convince them it is ok. when there are multiple units involved, or there is an illegal in law, you are dealing with more value issue. a kitchen or bath remodel, in my experience, it does not seem -- people are not as scared of that. >> when you buy the building, you are buying the problem. you are buying the unit without permits. hopefully, it was disclosed at that time. >> there is one example of a property, a $3 million property,

and they had never gotten their completion of it. the other thing i would say, it depends on the marketplace itself. today -- at that moment in time, we got a buyer. they took it without a completion. we disclosed as to why there wasn't. it had to do with the fire escape. the buyers took it on. we were very clear. when it was going to be sold again, two years later, i got a call from the agent to ask me about a property. we are involved forever, in some cases. they bought it. today, it would be a different story, i think. the other thing about the illegal rooms, if it is obvious to the appraiser -- the

appraisal is a big thing for us now. if it looks legal, he might count it as a room. otherwise, he may not count it within the square footage. that could affect the value. but looks legal, he may not go unchecked. no window, someone is calling it a room, there is going to be a question of value. >> another big issue in san francisco, or questions of value with regard to if there is a permit or not done for certain work on a property, has to do with the future of potential and someone's intent to condo- converted building. that is a big one. there was a two-unit building where a tax was built -- a deck was built without a permit to be used as a recreational deck, but on the building plans that were

approved by the department of building inspection, there were the -- there was the deck shown. the railings on the plan around the surface of this roof deck -- there was a staircase to get up to this, but there was no -- so we had a problem because the building inspection that was done for the sale of the property by the buyer indicated that, well, this cannot be permitted roof deck. in digging around a little bit more, we found that to be true. this is a two-unit building that the buyer intended to apply for a condominium conversion that some point in the near future. that was a big deal for them. what they found out in their search was they would have to remove what was there or find a way to add a second means of egress.

that was a $10,000 problem. >> i think any to chip in your. things have changed about second means of redress for homes. only one exit is required for each unit. this created that. >> we go back to their units, my friend rented out, but has never complained about it too many people. what kind of problem could my friend get in this kind of situation? >> [inaudible] >> there are endless problems you can get into renting an illegal unit. you are an attorney. you want to talk about that? you can leave it open. >> i will leave it open. >> their problems related to the city and planning enforcement, probably related to the tenant, who has rights to implied

warranty of have the ability, and all the other things that tenants are deserving -- tenant desert. is the land blurred permitted to collect rent? -- the landlord permitted to collect rent? >> [inaudible] >> that is an excellent point. we will talk about the value. let me say, if it has existed for a long time, that does not make it ok. it means they got away with it for a long time. that does not mean it is ok because it has been there 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 years. that does not make it ok. >> they can come in and kick up a tenant in clear out all of the room? >> we do not inspect those on a routine basis. we only look at them if we receive a complaint. we do not kick the people out. retell the property owner, you

have this problem. you have to figure out how to solve the problem. legalize the unit. they can make some other change. >> anybody can come in and make trouble? >> they can. >> when we go to sell a property like that, if your friend wanted to sell the single-family house and had a tenant in the legal unit, if we write up the statement we hand out to all the people that come in, this has happened a couple of times that we put a legality of the unit on known by the owner and agent, or illegal, that was the term we used to use, and the neighbors see that, some of them could be angry and call the building department at the time of sale. they can call them for any reason and do it. we have seen that happen. if the city has a problem, they could make it illegal.

the owner has to deal with the rent control board because it is difficult to get a tenant out. it is tricky. it is more difficult to sell a property with a tenant in at in a non-permitted unit. the value -- they may be making money on rent, but john can speak to that. >> [inaudible] especially in the sunset area, a single house -- >> it is a big issue. it is a policy issue. we have up to tens of thousands of these units. they serve an important function. they provide housing. the board provides moderate- income housing. very few of them never been meet the minimum standards for have the ability. they don't. i have been in hundreds of these

units. i don't think i have ever in my experience been in a unit that was built without permits that neat -- meets the requirements of the building code, not once. what we have is a double standard of have the ability here. people who meet the code is live on the standards we have agreed upon. people live in units that are not permitted have some lower standard of have the ability. >> it is. i think it is. the tenants pay their own rent, too. >> thank you. i wanted to add my two cents. i have legalized dozens of dwelling units, illegal units, for people in san francisco. in the last 10 years, there has been a sea change within the bureaucracy, the building and planning departments, where the attitude has been very proactive in trying to help property owners bring things up to code and to save